Comments by Gilruin
These are the 10 posts of 226 by Gilruin.
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Samples of Tolkien’s scripts available on the Internet
This is my attempt to collect all the (legally) available samples of Tolkien’s scripts. In particular the Website of the Tolkien Estate is a treasure trove for this, their presentation of the material is quite nicely done and also includes much of Tolkien’s other art.
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Gloss “arda” by Ardalambion (Helge Fauskanger) created il y a 10 ans
Neither, it’s arda ‘realm, region’ used as a proper name, from ★ gardā ‘region’ ← ᴹ√GAR ‘keep, hold, possess; maintain, defend’ thus probably ‘a thing possessed/defended’, cf. ★ reddā > Q resta ‘field, lit. a thing sown’ ← √RED ‘scatter, sow’, ★ yuldā > Q yulda ‘drink, draught, lit. a thing drunk’ ← √YUL ‘drink’.
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Translation
Not quite: ‘I will love’ would be mel·uva·n with the tense suffix before the person suffix, tye ‘you’ is missing, ‘of the stars’ would be elenion, elenath is Sindarin → I’d suggest meluvan tye, an natye valda elenion.
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Elvish Phrases
The long-term idea would be to learn Elvish (see resources here). However since this quite a lot of work, you could simply ask for the phrase you want?
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Exillic Noldorin and Quenya - What's the difference on the dictionary?
That’s an artefact of Tolkien changing his mind over the years:
- In the late period of his life (1950s onwards, the conceptual period we can see in the Lord of the Rings), the Noldor used Quenya and the Welsh-like language is called Sindarin.
- Before that, the Welsh-like language was called Noldorin (or earlier Goldogrin) and was spoken by the Noldor, the Ilkorindi spoke Ilkorin/Doriathrin.
This lexicon contains words from all conceptual periods. When something is labelled as Noldorin, it means that it’s meant in the second sense. To illustrate this with an example: Let’s say you want two characters to say ‘book’ and ‘arm’:
- For a Ñoldo, you’d choose Quenya. That should be rather easy for those words: parma, ranco,.
- For a Sinda the question becomes more complicated: There is no word for ‘book’ in the Sindarin corpus, but we know one for the Noldorin from the 1930s: parf. Since we see many words carrying over from Noldorin to Sindarin and there is no (obvious) argument against it, we can just use parf as if it were Sindarin. For ‘arm’ the same problem occurs: No known Sindarin word, but Noldorin rhanc. However just using rhanc in Sindarin wouldn’t do: we know that Tolkien changed a couple of phonetic development rules, and among those, it appears that he deleted the change r- > rh-, so I would use ranc instead. For ‘finger’.
This process of deciding which words to use can get rather involved and there is no fast way to explain the rationales behind this. And this problem exists for Quenya as well (I just choose words that illustrate this for Sindarin/Noldorin)
Also, just to mention it: name formation is a quite involved process, feel free to request input on your ideas here.
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Contribution “Extrapolation of Tolkien's quote about death” by Robert Pettit
Thanks for contributing to Parf Edhellen!
Unfortunately this still needs quite a lot of work. To illustrate my points, I have attempted a translation myself:
Têl? Ach lîdh ú·dêl sí. Gurth râd egel i moe padrad an·ilphen. I·fadhrost vith en amar hen eria a h·ill ola cheledh gelebren. A h·en toleg tired han: rest ‘lain, a h·athar san, dôr galen chaer nu amrûn lagor
“End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path, one that we all must take. The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all turns to silver glass, and then you see it. White shores, and beyond, a far green country under a swift sunrise.”
Têl? “End?”
The earlier sentence form Pippin is “I didn't think it would end this way”, and Gandalf repeats that end as a question, which would be a verb in the 3rd person singular of a verb ‘to end’ (I picked *tel-), not the noun “(an) end”.
ú·dêl “doesn’t end”
the normal negation is ú “no, not”, ava- “don’t” is used to negate commands: ú-chebin estel anim “I don’t keep hope for myself” vs. avo garo “don’t do it”.
râd “path”
Sometimes you’ll find multiple different words for a single translation, like in this case fû and râd for ‘path’. In that case it’s usually a good idea to check if one is better attested than the other: fû is derived from the one phrase Fui ’Ngorthrim “Paths of the Dead”, but we don’t have a specific gloss, it’s etymology or indeed even it’s singular form — fû is an educated guess. For râd on the other hand we know it’s root, have a gloss and see it in compounds, so it’s arguably the safer choice.
i·fadhrost vithren “the gray rain-curtain”
Adjectives usually follow the nouns they modify and get mutated in Sindarin, so “grey veil” usually is fân vithren, not mithren fân. Also the compound fadhrost ← fân + rost “rainy curtain” illustrates that in Sindarin words frequently change form when compounded. The phenomenon of mutation shows up frequently in Sindarin, not only for adjectives, but for direct objects like heledh → ola cheledh “become glass” and after certain function words like têl → ú·dêl “doen’t end” as well.
Based on a couple of words, I assume your last sentence is something to the effect of “don’t fear, for death is the gift of Ilúvatar and eventually even the Elves will desire it”, but unfortunately the text isn’t really interpretable as it stands now.
I would suggest to revisit some learning resources before attempting to revise your translation, we have a thread of recommended ones here. In case you have specific questions or need help, you are warmly invited to ask here on Parf Edhellen.
Gilruin , Gilruin
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Contribution “Caladraeth” by Galadoneth A-Camhollen
Thanks for contributing to Parf Edhellen!
Do you feel like the attested word calar ‘lamp’ or kalatta ‘lamp’ > calath. As for raeth, I don’t think it actually means the kind of sphere you are looking for, the full gloss “extent, reach; region, sphere, district, scope” from a √RAHA “stretch forward”, which suggests to me that raeth has nothing to do with roundness in particular.
Gilruin , Gilruin
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Contribution “farale” by Gabriel Hempell
Thanks for contributing to Parf Edhellen!
Unfortunately I’m going to reject your contribution: The source given (Parma Eldalamberon 22, p. 110, 138) only has the gloss ‘hunting’ from Tolkien and I don’t think the gloss ‘hunter’ is particularly likely for that word. In general, I would expect fáro, farondo, faramo for ‘hunter’ based on other agent nouns we see:
- fáro, cf. nam- ‘to judge’ → námo ‘judge’, nap- ‘to pick’ → nápo “picker, finger”, THĀ/ATHA- ‘to help, assist’ → sáro “saviour”...
- farondo (-ndo ‘masculine agent noun’), cf. col- ‘to bear’ → colindo ‘bearer’, mel- “to love” → melindo “lover”... In Noldorin (a predecessor of Sindarin) we have faron ‘hunter’, which derives from the same proto-form, that would give us farondo for Quenya.
- faramo (-mo ‘agent noun’), cf. IR- ‘desire’ → Irmo “Desirer”, ul- ‘to pour’ → Ulmo ‘Pourer’, RŌ/ORO- “up” → ormo “riser”, tir- ‘to watch’ → tirmo ‘watcher’...
gilruin , Gilruin
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Fire is power
nár melehtë (ná) should work indeed (Was melehtië a typo, Tolkien’s word doesn’t include abstract -ië?). I would have perhaps gone for nárë túrë ná to give it a bit of poetic touch.
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