Comments by Elaran
These are the 10 posts of 195 by Elaran.
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First Phrases
"Early / Middle Quenya" refer to the conceptual development stages of Quenya. They are not canonical "archaic forms" (or "old" in Middle-earth), but rather drafts from the earlier days of Tolkien's language construction (or "old" in the real world). In other words:
Early Quenya: Drafts from the 1920s
Middle Quenya: Drafts from the 1940s (more in tune with the latter)
(Late) Quenya: Canonical form from the 1960sSo in terms of "actual Quenya", using earlier (especially the Early Period) works as a base is not really an option.
As I always say, dictionaries do not teach grammar, and words mean little without grammar... I will skip to how I would translate those phrases:
Melmenya, xaran(ye) tyen.
Melmenya, cestan(ye) tyen.
Melmenya, cenin(ye) tye.
Melmenya, samin(ye) tye.
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Follow your bliss translation
Better yet Hantan(yë) lye/lyen (it could be either "I thank you[lye]" or "I give thanks to-you[lyen]", it is unclear). Because our current understanding of Quenya suggests that the only object suffixes were the 3rd p. ones. Like Hantanyes "I thank him/her/it".
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More questions about names.
As the example image should have clarified, Sindarin has over 140 phonetic rules which govern compound words, and the rules would look like "dark magic" to a beginner. They require advanced linguistic understanding to be able to know what to do with them. Until acquiring such familiarity within the field, I recommend consulting experts rather than attempting to compound words as a beginner. Your name reads "Gift-son Dark-water" to me, which is fine if you meant to go for those meanings.
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Translation of unit names
There can be no non-final "ai" in Sindarin, words like bain would become "bein". Nor can there be initial W without mutation. The word for ring is rather *corf (read V), and "gwadoras" is a draft word that does not work in canonical Sindarin (an updated form could be *gochónas but I would prefer *covas).
I'm not sure about using bain as "blessed", and for "the Blessed" I would say "i Vaun" (from √MAN) like a title instead of a name. And for "Queen of Storms" I would say Alachíril. And finally Covas e-Gorf "Fellowship of the Ring".
The Sindarin cognate of Nerwen would be Derwen (old compound). Nówë would probably be Nû (its etymology is somewhat unclear, it could rather be "Naw", but "Nû" is a safer bet). Elendil could remain as it is (if archaic) or become Elennil. The other two are correct-ish, except the last should be Anórion.
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Line from the Lay of Beowulf
It would have been better if you shared what you are trying to translate, because it is impossible to understand even what it is supposed to mean. For now I can say that Sindarin does not allow consonant clusters like "NCD (rancdeid)" and "MPD (gampdeid)", nor final "EI (deid)" (unless archaic). Then the seemingly random variance of "a & ah", without mutation, but we have more pressing issues. And a preposition that precedes nothing (that last "o"). More to say, but like I said, there are more important problems for now.
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More questions about names.
"No" to all of them as usual. I meant to address this before, but I will say it (?again) here, in case I forgot: Forming names properly in Sindarin is difficult. It should be left to experts, without any attempts from others. Because offering commentary on mistaken attempts alongside what the right forms should be needlessly lengthens the process. I will avoid going into detail this time.
I would rather go with be for "like". But I highly doubt that a question can work as a name in Elvish languages. I will offer a basic name with the root √MAN "holy, blessed, good..." which comes from Valarin Mānawenūz "One (closest) in accord with Eru, Blessed One", whence comes Manwë, the "Michael" of Arda.
- Menion "Blessed-one".
To my knowledge, no Elvish name of a bird species has the word "bird" in it, so I will drop that. And I would rather avoid the reconstructed draft "beak". I will instead adapt Q. náva "mouth; hollow".
- Lannof "Wide-mouth"
The word (g)aear never appears with that last A in compound forms.
- (G)aerion "Sea-son"
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rɣ > rg in Middle Sindarin?
[...] abandoned by Tolkien?
Yes, PE17/23 gives "√GIL >> √ÑGIL". But I only shared that information to say that even in proper compounds a prenasalised G that follows a liquid would have stayed as it is (just as the D of dor remains in Mordor, instead of becoming Ð/DH, because it came from NDOR). Not that it actually relates to the "false compound" situation.
I call them "false compounds", because if they were regular compounds like elvellon, then they would have had aur as a following element (like a suffix "-or"), as in *Menelor "sky-day = day of sky". Because "Ormenel" does not make sense (as a word for a weekday) as "day-sky = sky of day", hence it is rather "day (of) sky", which is what Sindarin normally does with phrases (e.g. Aran Moria "King (of) Moria"), but almost never with compounds. Almost, hence these "or-" words.
Not just that the word became polysyllabic, but the fact that AU came to precede a consonant cluster would have "forced" it to become O as most AU from ancient AW (cf. glaur > Glorfindel). The name Aerandir does the opposite for the same purpose (of lessening syllable weight) where the double R is shortened to single as it follows a diphthong. Though there is also Orithil (which lacks a consonant cluster), but at this point I can play the "reformed by analogy" card. As for which rules apply and which do not, our sample size is too small to tell.
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Fiery, Evil, Sindarin Translations
Drop all of those circumflexes. The words only have them in isolation, not in compounds. Nothing else to change (surprisingly) besides those.
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rɣ > rg in Middle Sindarin?
Nope. Two reasons:
Firstly, The "gil" part in Orgilion comes from the prenasalised root ÑGIL, and these never become lost like G without nasalisation. In fact prenasalised words that follow liquids consistently (seemingly) avoid mutation, like Mordor (<NDOR).
Secondly, both Orgaladh(ad) and Orgilion are "false compounds" which mean "Day of [Tree(s)/Star(s)]" rather than "Day-[thing]". That is why actually none of these "Or-" words for days show mutation.
Tarias and Díriel are fine as they are.
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Sindarin translation
"I will dare" is
berthatholNo, that is "You(formal) will dare". And "I will dare" is rather berthathon.
pretty cool ... I could use this ... Very insightful!
My point was that it is rather nonsensical... I was pointing out a mistake. The "will" bit is meant as in the future tense (not "will(power)" or anything like that), thus it is simply "darer(in-the-future)", which is not a translation but my trying to approximate its (non)sense.
wouldn't
Thoronathbe more appropriate?If you want "all Eagles", yes.
how you would paraphrase it
I did not have anything in mind, I simply meant that I would personally try and think of an alternative to say the same thing without questionable parts. It can take time, and I would rather reply quickly.
