Comments by Röandil

These are the 10 posts of 143 by Röandil.

  • Mae g'ovannen, I'm new

    Welcome!

    [Note that in Tolkien's latest conception, govannen is most likely a lenited form of a verb cova(d)-, so no apostrophe necessary!]

  • Celebrimbor Ring Transcription- Shadow of War video game

    Below are the tweaks I’d make to the game’s translation, which isn't terrible, all things considered. (The transcription, as you noted, is horrific.)

    Ni i Chîr Gelair Mordor,
    I (am) the Lord Bright (of) Mordor,

    i vâb gelebrin i nachortha i vôr,
    the hand silvern that drives-back the darkness,

    treraethol i chîth fuin an achared din and ’weriennin.
    reaching-through the fog (of) night to avenge those long betrayed.

    Erio o thelaith gurth a hedweno uin gwath
    Rise from plains (of) death and go-forth from-the shadow

    trî i laich buidol dagor.
    through the flames purifying (of) battle.

    Dhen i nî Elidh nidhin achaded nuin nam nín.
    You who once (were) Eldar I-shall re-shape beneath hammer my.

    I Andor, I ’Warth, nidhin dangared.
    The Gift-lord, the Betrayer, I-shall unmake

    Eithon Avon adh rúnad i Nôr Gwath
    I-forsake Aman to deliver the Land (of) Shadow

    a chabed idh remmais Ardhon.
    and bind the walls (of) Arda.

    Mi sad e Chîr Vorn, sevidh galad althinnen.
    In-the place of-the Lord Dark, you-have light un-dimmed.

    Ill gostar nin a galthar.
    All fear me and rejoice.

    Other translators will likely have input or different ideas, so I'd recommend holding a beat. Once there's been some opportunity for others to weigh in, I'm happy to help with transcriptions.

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  • Translation Help! Sindarin or Quenya with Tengwar Needed for a Show Title

    No problem! Happy to help.

    Tengwar transcription here, using Tengwar Annatar Italic to mimic the style of the One Ring inscription. You'll be able to save it as a PNG file from the "Share" window in the bottom corner of the right pane.

    A rough English approximation would be "HOOEY-neh mee FOR-men." Navigate to this IPA reader, select the "Carla - Italian" voice from the dropdown menu, and enter /ˈhuinɛ mi ˈfɔrmɛn/ in the query bar for a pretty good Elvish accent.

  • Translation Help! Sindarin or Quenya with Tengwar Needed for a Show Title

    Ah, glad you like! So there are three options there for both Quenya and Sindarin, each separated by semicolons after the parenthetical translations. Let me know which you prefer.

    By that point in history, Quenya was "dead" (i.e. no new native speakers) and confined to lore and ritual, occupying a very similar space to Latin in our world. Sindarin was the most widely-spoken Elvish language of the time. For this purpose, however, I think you could justify a Quenya name to convey a sense of ancientness or sophistication — again, much as we do with Latin with university mottoes, scientific nomenclature, etc. So, again, your call!

  • Translation Help! Sindarin or Quenya with Tengwar Needed for a Show Title

    Lovely! A few options for most of these. Here we go:

    THE COMING OF HEROES

    • Q. I Tulessë Calloiva (“The Coming of-Heroes”); Callotulessë (“Hero-coming”)
    • S. I Doled Cellyn (“The Coming [of] Heroes”); I Doled Thelyn (“The Coming [of] Dauntless-Ones”)

    SHADOWS IN THE NORTH

    • Q. Huinë Formessë (“Shadow in-the-North”); Huinë mi Formen (“Shadow in the-North”); Forohuinë (“North-shadow”)
    • S. Fuin vi Forod (“Gloom in-the North”); Dúath vi Forod (“Night-shadow in-the North”); Gwath vi Forod (“Shadow in-the North”)

    THE DARKENED ROAD

    • Q. I Lómëa Tië/Mallë (“The Shadowed Road/Street”); I Morna… (“The Dark…”); I Lúna… (“The Dark…”)
    • S. I Ven/Rath Wathren (“The Road/Street Shadowy”); ...Wathui (“…Shadowy”); …Vorn (“…Dark”), …Dûr (“The Road/Street Dark [with evil implications]”)

    THE WITCH-KING’S RISE

    • Q. Orië Angamarwa (“[The] Rising of Angmar”); Oryalë Angamarwa (“[The] Rising of Angmar”) [Two noun formations of orya- “to rise”]
    • S. I Eriad Angmar (“The Rising of Angmar”); I Eriad Angbar [using the “pure Sindarin” form of the name]

    MIDDLE-EARTH: THE UNSUNG STORIES

    • Q. Endor [long form Endórë]: I Allirinë Quentar (“Middle-earth: The Unsung Stories”); …Nyarnar (“…Legends”); …Nyári (“…Histories”)
    • S. Ennor: I Phint Allinnin (“Middle-earth: The Stories Unsung”); …I Nern Allinnin (“…the Tales Unsung”)

    MIDDLE-EARTH: FORGOTTEN HEROES/SOULS

    • Q. Endor [long Endórë]: Lehtainë Callor/Fëar (“Middle-earth: Forgotten Heroes/Souls”)
    • S. Ennor: Cellyn/Fae Leithennin (“Middle-earth: Heroes/Souls Forgotten”); …Thelyn Leithennin (“Dauntless-Ones Forgotten,” as above) [The Sindarin for “soul,” fae, is identical in singular and plural. You could perhaps use a collective faeath, basically “all souls,” but I wouldn’t make this a first choice.]

    MIDDLE-EARTH: THE LONG JOURNEY

    • Q. Endor [long Endórë]: I Anda Lenda (“Middle-earth: The Long Journey”)
    • S. Ennor: I Lîdh And (“Middle-earth: The Journey Long”)

    There you have it! A quick note that Quenya is my expertise, so I'm pinging a Sindarin expert to come take a pass. After that, you can let us know your favorites and we can work on tengwar transcription!

  • Translation Help! Sindarin or Quenya with Tengwar Needed for a Show Title

    With requests like this one, it’s almost always easier if you can generate a few titles for us to translate and choose what you like best.

  • Help with translation

    Ah, I’d actually caution against almost every word in the better part of that one. I’m afraid it shows signs of some fundamental misunderstandings of the language:

    • Irenye is an invalid formation. It looks to be the subject suffix -nye attached directly to a misspelling of the noun írë, which isn’t how those elements work in Quenya. For “I desire,” I think most translators would suggest merinyë, but if we were to derive a verb from the same ancient root as írë, it would probably take a form like *ir- or *íra-. These would conjugate here as irinyë and íranyë respectively, but never !irenye.

    • Mine “one” comes from a draft form of Quenya and is attested as min in later materials. This is also a count form — 1 as the beginning of the sequence 2, 3, 4, etc. — and while it could work, I think derivatives of the root ER “single, sole” (e.g. erya above) are more appropriate for the sense of your translation.

    • Cuile, like min, comes from mid-concept Quenya. Tolkien shifted the “life” root to KOY from KUY, which came to mean “awaken” in the later period (compare Cuiviénen, the “Water of Awakening” where the Elves stirred). Coivië and coivë are the mature forms.

    • Nautanalde is another invalid formation. I wouldn’t use nauta- in this context, and that -lde suffix is actually plural (“you all”), so it’s incorrect if you’re addressing just your wife, besides being improperly attached to a participle. I’d translate “bound to you” with nutina tyenna.

    • Tauva “endure” is only attested in the plural tauvar in a single note amongst Tolkien’s late jottings, and we have no idea what the basic form of the verb is. It could be tauva-, or the future tense of a verb *tav- or even *tá- (compare ná- “to be,” fut. nauva). We also don’t know if it can take a direct object, as this translation assumes, because it’s intransitive in the only place we see it used. I recommend against it because of these uncertainties and the better-attested and more transparent verb termar- of the same meaning.

    There's definitely room for creative interpretation and paraphrasing with this sentence, but enough of that translation is flat-out mistaken enough that I wouldn't recommend engraving it.

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  • Translation Help

    This one's pretty straightforward!

    I Golch Marco, Aran Linnas. Pedo, mellon, a minno. Im Manuel han echant. [Roandil] teithant i thîw hin.
    lit. "The Chest (of) Marco, Lord (of) Music. Speak, friend, and enter. Myself Manuel it made. [Roandil] drew the signs these."

    NOTES:

    • Colch "box, chest" (lenited here as i golch "the box") is adapted from a Gnomish (very early draft-Sindarin) word colc, but I think it fits well into the later conception.

    • I quite dislike the Sindarinized version of my name — probably Grewennil — so feel free to go with literally any other option, haha!

    • The names "Marco" and "Manuel" could probably be Sindarinized as Marcho and Manwel, if you like, but I don't think that's crucial for this purpose.

  • Translation help for a tattoo- Quenya Tengwar

    Hi! A few things to clear up, bear with me!

    (1) Of the four sites you posted, I can't overstate that only Tecendil should be trusted for transcription. The first two misuse tengwar fonts completely and produce gibberish, and Jens Hansen uses a mode with serious faults. It also confuses transcription (Latin alphabet > Elvish writing system) with translation (English > Elvish languages), which signals misunderstanding of the basics. The tengwar ("letters") are a writing system, while Quenya ("Speech") is a language.

    (2) Next, and more importantly, we cannot say with absolute certainty how the Elves would have said or written "twenty-four" for a couple of reasons.

    • In a late essay, Tolkien changed the word for "ten" from kainen to quëan; the largest number form attested from that conceptual period is neterquë "nineteen." Some Neo-Quenya authors look to an early draft word yukainen "twenty" and update it to match this new "ten"-word, producing *yuquain (with -quain as quëan's combining form), but we don't have confirmation that this is the form Tolkien would have used.

    • Although the Elves ordinarily used a decimal (base-10) system, they also "preferred to reckon in sixes and twelves as far as possible" (LotR/1107) and had a separate duodecimal (base-12) system that "they used in all more elaborate reckonings" (VT47/14). There would have almost certainly been a special word for "24" in this system, its being the equivalent of decimal "20." In draft materials, it's yurasta, but we don't know what Tolkien conceptualized in the latest period.

    • Everything we know about the numerical tengwar can fit a half-page, and some of the attested examples inter-contradict, which leaves number writing a very shaky endeavor in general.

    • We are told that "for lists, series and the like, the tengwar from 1 to 24 (t, p, . . . , w) were used, just as we use (a), (b), . . . A sign such as a dot or bar above could be used, e.g. nt or ti" ("The Writing Systems of Middle-earth," Quettar #1). In this system, vilya would represent 24 and could potentially be written w or wi (or over-barred, but that's outside the formatting of this comment).

    TLDR, this is a risky tattoo. We can't say for certain what Tolkien would have done, and whatever solution you land on could be invalidated by the publication of new material. If you're okay with that chance, here are my recommendations, in order of surety:

    • 24
      This is "24" written numerically in the duodecimal reckoning. An optional dot or small circle can be written under the character on the left.

    • w or wi
      This is the twenty-fourth tengwa of the usual order, optionally marked with a dot or bar, as mentioned above. (The name of this letter means "air" or "sky," if that adds any special significance for you.)

    • canta yuquain
      These are the Quenya words canta yuquain "four (and) twenty" written out in the classical mode. I recommend this option least for the reasons outlined above.

    Please don't hesitate to let me know if you have any questions. I want to make sure you're a very, very informed tengwar tattooer!

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  • I need a translation PLEASE!

    Quenya doesn't have a word for "goddess" proper — the closest match might be Valië, a term for a female Vala, one of ruling angelic powers in Arda. Middle Quenya gives us mitya for "interior," which I think is fine for this sense.

    So perhaps mitya Valië "interior Valië," keeping the above in mind.