Background: An elf maid active in the great northern wars between Arthedain and Angmar founded a hidden refuge to serve as an orphanage for the children of Arthedain who have no family or neighbours to take care of them. She wants the name to emphasise that they are each other's family now. She happens to be a skilled bard.
I'm looking at Bardh-en-Nothlir, meaning Home of the Family.
Comments or suggestions?
Thanks!
I went with bardh instead of bar simply because the founder of the orphanage is a bard and I like multi-lingual puns. :)
I like the compound ideas, I'll have to decide which I like best.
I think I'll go with a formal name of bard-en-nothlir and an informal one Barnothlir, which would be easier for the younger children to remember and to say.
Nos Arthedain is a good idea except that the king of Arthedain, plus his family and retainers might object... :)
Love it! Just remember though that it is not pronounced bard. The Sindarin dh "ð" is most like th in English the. It is not pronounced like normal d. I was also thinking we could do Penodhron (lt.) Parentless or Without Parents for Orphanage.
Several issues throughout the forms given in this thread.
Most pressing is the fact that nothlir is likely not a Sindarin word to begin with. It is a 1st Age Mannish word, likely under Sindarin influence or even of Sindarin origin, but not Sindarin. Use noss.
A genitive construction "Home of the Family" would be Bardh-e-Noss or Bardh-i-Noss; note the use of e in the former, rather than en. Alternatives with bâr are also possible of course: Bar-e-Noss, and Bar-i-Noss. However there is no instance in which *bard (without a final h) could work here.
Barnos is correct as a compound meaning "home-family"; however this would likely refer to the family itself, not the building, and therefore not what is required here.
Noss Arthedain (note the double ss!) would mean "(a) family of Arthedain", far too unspecific IMO.
Pen-odhron could work for "orphan, parentless"; it could be incorporated into the name as Bar-i-Phenedhryn "Home of the Parentless-ones" or Bardh-i-Phenedhryn.
Thanks for the info. There are things about your recommendations I don't understand - and I would VERY much like to.
"en" is listed as meaning "of the". Neither "e" or "i" are so listed as meaning the same thing (that I could find on this site). Could you explain why you prefer either one?
I can and I can't believe I missed it. LOL it is due to Mixed Mutation. en N goes to e-N and plural of 'en' is 'in' so it would go to i-N if plural causing a Nasal Mutation.
At least that's what appears to me anyways. Ellanto can probably explain it better. LOL
Just a slight correction: in is not the plural of en, it is simply the definite article.
Otherwise the explanation is correct. The preposition en causes mixed mutation (in singular; in plural it causes nasal mutation), which in this case would be en + noss > e noss.
With Bardh-i-Phenedhryn this preposition is not used. This is Sindarin's alternative method for representing genitive constructions: in phrases of the form A of B Sindarin can optionally leave the "of" part implied. In other words Bardh-i-Phenedhryn literally means "home the parentless", but is understood to mean "home of the parentless". It is equally possible to say Bardh-e-Phenedhryn with an overt "of" (and nasal mutation due to plurality).
One further note: I seem to have misplaced an 'r' in my suggested Bar-i-Phenedhryn earlier, I will edit this now.
Sorry for the confusion. I was going off of Fiona's book A Fan's Guide to Neo-Sindarin which states "“The plural of en is in, the exact same as plural "the," and it also uses nasal mutation.” When I should have just looked at Eldamo which show the plural is enan.