Sindarin Translation for "Harpist of Lórien"

david wendelken #2845

A position responsible to the ruler of Lórien, with responsibilities of an emissary to outside rulers and entertaining via song, harping, and tale-telling, and as a repository of lore and customs.

Relevant words I've found:

talagan : harper

uin : of the

nan : of

na(n) : of / within/ provided by, etc.

en- or e-: of the

Lórien: Lórien

galadhrim: people of Lórien

I'm looking at several options, but I really don't yet understand the grammar:

(Alternatively use Lórien instead of galadhrim)

talaganuin galadhrim or talagan galadhrimuin or talagan uin galadhrim

talagan na galadhrim

talagan en-galadhrim

Or are there better choices?

david wendelken #2847

I'm thinking that ar(a) might be an appropriate prefix for the word chosen for harpist.

aratalagan (royal harpist), i.e., the king's harpist (under Amroth or his father Amdír), with the title remaining as is even though Celeborn and Galadriel chose Lord and Lady instead of King and Queen.

Thoughts?

david wendelken #2851

I'm leaning towards:

aratalagan en-galadhrim or aratalagan en-lórien

Gwilithiel #2852

I offer:

ardalagan o Lórien

or

talagan arod o Lórien

david wendelken #2854

Thanks!

I can see aratalagan shifting pronunciation to ardalagan. Makes sense, much easier to say. Is that a normal Sindarin sound shift? I know they exist but have never been clear about what the rules are.

"Arod" seems to lean towards a meaning of "noble", which is not the same as "royal".

A Royal Baker is the chief baker for royalty, not a royal person or a member of the nobility. So arod doesn't seem to fit to me.

"o" seems to lean towards a meaning of "from". It's possible to hold a royal appointment in a realm one is not "from". That's why I tried to go with a word with a solid meaning of "of".

Make sense?

Gwilithiel #2856

I can see aratalagan shifting pronunciation to ardalagan. Makes sense, much easier to say. Is that a normal Sindarin sound shift? I know they exist but have never been clear about what the rules are.

The change from “t” to “d” is soft mutation, and I decided to shorten ara- to ar- so that the word would not exceed four syllables, as generally names in Sindarin should not exceed four syllables.

"Arod" seems to lean towards a meaning of "noble", which is not the same as "royal".

"o" seems to lean towards a meaning of "from". It's possible to hold a royal appointment in a realm one is not "from". That's why I tried to go with a word with a solid meaning of "of".

Ahhh my bad; I considered “noble” and “royal” as interchangeable in this case, but if you want “royal” specifically I would use arn. I also interpreted “of Lórien” as “from Lórien”, like Edhil o Imladris (elves of Rivendell) as attested in the title of the A Elbereth Gilthoniel hymn. Based off of your clarifications, I would instead offer:

ardalagan Lórien or talagan arn Lórien

Based off the attested example from the King’s Letter aran Gondor ar Arnor (king of Gondor and Arnor), there is no extra word needed to denote “of a certain place” in Sindarin titles as such.

david wendelken #2857

Very helpful! Thanks!