Quenya translation for "Harpist of Lórien"

david wendelken #2846

A position responsible to the ruler of Lórien, with responsibilities of an emissary to outside rulers and entertaining via song, harping, and tale-telling, and as a repository of lore and customs.

Relevant words I've found: tyalangan : harp-player

nandaro : harper

-o : of

Lórien: Lórien

galadhrim: people of Lórien

I'm looking at several options, but I really don't yet understand the grammar:

(Alternatively use Lórien instead of galadhrim)

tyalangano galadhrim or tyalangan galadhrimo

nandaroo galadhrim or nandaro galadhrimo

Nandaroo sounds like a spicy Indian dish. :(

Or are there better choices?

david wendelken #2848

I'm thinking that aranya (royal) might be an appropriate adjective to follow the word chosen for harpist.

nandaro aranya (royal harpist), i.e., the king's harpist (under Amroth or his father Amdír), with the title remaining as is even though Celeborn and Galadriel chose Lord and Lady instead of King and Queen.

So, nandaroo aranya galadhrim or nandaroo aranya lórien for example.

Thoughts?

Tamas Ferencz #2849

galadhrim is a Sindarin word and as such would not be used in a Quenya phrase. The genitive suffix -o is attached to the noun that is the possessor, in this case Lórien; and the attested phrase Altariello nainie Lóriendesse suggests that the correct for would be Lóriendo.

So: nandaro aranya Lóriendo or

tyalangal aranya Lóriendo

david wendelken #2855

Thanks!

Röandil #2884

nandaro aranya Lóriendo

tyalangal aranya Lóriendo

These are both rather "harpist of royal Lórien," and tyalangal > tyalangan(d-).

the correct for would be Lóriendo

Could be. We don't know if original final -e might have been long and therefore preserved in inflection, so Lóriendeo is worth consideration.

I think aranya rather qualifies its modified noun as royal itself, based on attested atar aranya ("royal father"), and wonder if there might be another adjectival form for courtly offices and the like...

Cenindo #2885

We have "arna" as a shorter word for "royal", attested as part of the Quenya name of Arnor: Arnanórë, Arnanor = Royal Land (Letters:428). I would prefer it to the somewhat ambiguous form "aranya."

Röandil #2887

I'd support that recommendation!

So arna ñandaro/tyalangan Lóriend(e)o could be possible forms.

david wendelken #2888

Would the two different spellings of Lóriend(e)o be due to the gender of the harpist?

Röandil #2891

No — as I mentioned above, Lórien has a stem in Lóriend-, but we don't know whether its original final vowel was short or long and thus preserved in inflected forms. The genitive singular could be either Lóriendo or Lóriendeo.

david wendelken #2896

arna ñandaro Lóriend(e)o is what I prefer, given that the elves settled in Lorien were the Nandor elves. What can I say, I like a play on words!