Primitive elvish


root. *talk, speech

This root appeared in notes probably dating to the early 1960s as the basis for words for “speech”, probably replacing another root √KARAP of similar meaning, and with a deleted variant √PATAK (PE17/126). The root √PAKAT itself was probably a restoration of a (hypothetical) early root ✱ᴱ√PAKATA, the likely basis for “speech” words in the Gnomish Lexicon of the 1910s such as G. pactha- “utter, speak, talk” and G. paithron “orator” (GL/63).


  • PATAKPAKAT ✧ PE17/126


  • ᴺQ. pahta- “to speak, talk (intransitive)”
  • Q. pakta- “to speak, talk (intransitive)” ✧ PE17/126
  • Q. pahta “speech” ✧ PE17/126
  • S. paeth “speech” ✧ PE17/126
  • ᴺS. paetha- “to utter, speak, talk”


  • PATAK ✧ PE17/126 (PATAK)
Primitive elvish [PE17/126] Group: Eldamo. Published by


root. *talk, speech

The root √KARAP appeared with various forms and meanings throughout Tolkien’s life. Perhaps the earliest iteration was ᴱ√KᴬRPᴬR [KṚPṚ] “pluck” from the Qenya Lexicon of the 1910s (QL/45), with derivatives in the contemporaneous Gnomish Lexicon as well such as G. carp “bundle, bunch” and G. crib- “gather, pluck” (GL/25, 27). The verb form ᴱ✶kṛp- > ᴱQ. karpe “pluck” reappeared in the Early Qenya grammar of the 1920s (PE14/58).

The root ᴹ√KARPA appeared unglossed in the first version of Tengwesta Qenderinwa (TQ1) from the 1930s as an example of a KALTA-stem root, but whether it was related to earlier √KṚPṚ is unclear. Possibly also related is N. carab “hat”, appearing in N. Amon Carab which was an earlier name of S. Amon Rûdh.

Finally, the root √KARAP appeared in notes probably dating to the early 1960s, serving as the basis for various “speech” words such as Q. carpa-/S. carfa- “talk, speak, use tongue”, but that root was probably replaced by √PAKAT (PE17/126). Given the muddled history of this root, I would mostly avoid its use for purposes of Neo-Eldarin, though it is needed to justify N. carab “hat”.


  • Q. carpa “(entire) mouth; phonetic system” ✧ PE17/126
  • Q. carpa- “to talk, speak, use tongue” ✧ PE17/126
  • S. carfa- “to talk, speak, use tongue” ✧ PE17/126
Primitive elvish [PE17/126; PE17/156] Group: Eldamo. Published by