Dor-Cýlestel vs Dor-Cýlaestel “Land of Renewal and Hope”

Rínor #3184

Taking from the example of Dor-Cúarthol loc. “Land of Bow and Helm” ⇐ dôr + cû + a¹ + thôl. I wanted to call my new settlement Land of Renewal and Hope. Dor-Cýlestel “Land of Renewal and Hope” dôr + cŷl + a + estel. Now reading through Eldamo's Sindarin site [ae] rarely reduced to [ĕ]: and according to it there are a few examples where it seems [ae] reduces to short [ĕ] in both Sindarin and Noldorin. So I am not sure if it would drop. I do know that the vowels often shortened hence dôr becomes dor in polysyllables but I can't find much ŷ would it shorten to ý?

Ellanto #3191

I would avoid using conjunctions within compounds; Dor-Cúarthol seems to be aberrant in this respect, and I wouldn’t use it as an example.

That being said, the form Dor-Cýlestel should work, simply combining cŷl+estel. Alternatively you can separate the elements: Dor-Cŷl-ah-Estel or Dor-Estel-a-Chŷl.

As for ŷ vs ý - it is not correct to assume that ý is a shortened form of ŷ. Sindarin does not phonemically distinguish long vowels from overlong, only short from long/overlong, and the overlong vowels (with rare exceptions) only appear in monosyllabic words. In other words, a monosyllabic word with ŷ will use ý in a compound.

In native orthography (Tengwar or Cirth) the two are not even distinguished in writing.

As for whether it should be long or short - in this case the length should be retained because it was long primitively and is not followed by a consonant cluster, nor is it the final syllable.

In cases where the primitive form had a short vowel (that was subsequently lengthened in a monosyllabic word), the vowel should become short in a compound. When a long vowel is followed by a consonant cluster, it should in most cases shorten. The final syllable of a polysyllabic word, for the purpose of constructing new words, is always shortened regardless of origin.

Rínor #3194

Thank you Ellanto this was defiantly an odd one for me and was really struggling because to me it didn't look right having (a) in there but wanted to check with more experienced members who know the language. I do appreciate you taking the time to explain as it gives me more knowledge and more to add to my notes.

Ellanto #3199

Always happy to help!

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