"Nazgûl" in Sindarin

Feanéno Elearen #2443

Mae govannen, mellyn! Recently I was curious about the Sindarin for "Nazgûl" (the Ringwraiths, of course). I opened my physical copy of Sindarin-English & English Sindarin Dictionary 3rd Edition (2017) by J-M Carpenter, and it told me the translation should be Úlaer. However, the page "Arwen's Incantation" from "phrases" (see PHRASES -> Sindarin and scroll down to Arwen's Incantation) on this website used Ulaer without the acute "ú". Since I deem both to be credible and usually correct sources I do not know which is more accurate. It might be because it is a constructed Neo-Sindarin Word. If it is that case, what do more experienced speak(write)ers think about this? Thank you in advance. (I am a new Sindarin learner who has just memorized soft mutation and is moving on to forming plural nouns, so don't be harsh on me if I get anything wrong, or if I am asking a pointless question)

Gilruin #2445

Personally, I would deem neither the movie dialogs nor Carpenter’s work particularly good sources, but here I think she is right, a long ú would be better. We don’t have the Sindarin term attested, but the Quenya version is Úlairi with a long ú and I don’t see any reason to shorten it in Sindarin. U-/ú- can appear with both a short and a long vowel, but the long version seems to be more usual. I’m a bit hesitant about changing the phrase because Gwaith-i-Phethdain seems to imply that the movie lines were published with the short ú, but I’ll add a note.

Now about Carpenter’s book: I have pointed out a couple of errors in her material in her forum, which she subsequently deleted, so I can’t link to that anymore, instead here are two post ([1], [2]) from Elaran, where he explains some issue (they are just to illustrate the point, sadly one can make such a list for most of her material. If you have more questions about this, feel free to ask). I’m a bit conflicted about so bluntly saying that in general I find her work to be untrustworthy because she mentioned to me that she is disabled and cannot physically spend more time improving it, but in the end this still changes the point that she is wrong about a lot of things. I have collected the thing I do recommend in this thread.

(Also, I hope no one will be harsh about any question, be it pointless or not, and this one definitely isn’t pointless)

Feanéno Elearen #2446

Thank you for your reply! When learning phrases & words I cross reference everything with as much sources as I can so I don't get anything wrong. Also, thanks for telling me that the book is not a very good source.

BTW On Fiona Jallings' works, Elaran told me (on reddit) that the "Gelio Edhellen" course on academy.realelvish.net is a pretty good site to start with, do you agree? Not that I'm doubting Elaran but didn't he already say that Jallings' work is questionable?

Gilruin #2453

Fiona's work is definitely a good starting point. We might disagree over some points of interpretation (e. g. I don't think what we see in edain agorer vi Veleriann is lenition of prepositional phrases in adverbial position, but just generally the preposition (i)vi like we see in Quenya for (i)mi) but those are points where we both have valid arguments and can't prove the other is wrong.

Feanéno Elearen #2454

Annon allen!