"an Elven hymn to Elbereth Gilthoniel" Into quenya

Hello there, folks! So, i started using this site some time ago, but this is my first post (or at least the first thread that i created!). Well, as the subject says, this is my attempt of translating the hymn to Elbereth Gilthoniel into quenya, and i'd like to ask for your thoughts on it. My first idea was to try to make a contribution, but i didn't because i'd like to see some opinions before, so here it is:

Airilírë Vardo

Fána fáwë! Fána fáwë! A liquistëa heri!

A tári han i andúnë aireni!

Ámen calë i ramyammë hí

Imíca i amba rembinë aldarion!

Elentári! A Varda!

Liquistië nát henduly' ar súlelya calima!

Fána fáwë! Fána fáwë! Lirimmë len

Haiya nóressë han i airen.

A elen' i anarvalta yénessë

As calima má senen rérë nér,

Vailimë salquenórissë sí calimë ar liquistië

Cenimmë telepta almalya hlápula!

A Varda! Elentári!

Renimm' en, me 'n harë

Haiya nóressë nu i aldar,

Ilmalya i andúnë airenissë.

Great work! A couple of notes though:

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Fána fáwë! Fána fáwë! A liquistëa heri!

fáwa is a word from very early in Tolkien’s life, later he uses losse pretty consistently.

A tári han i andúnë aireni!

aireni was likely replaced by †aire, pl. *airi “sea” and †airon, pl. *airondi “ocean”, and the modern equivalents ear, earon.

Ámen calë i ramyammë hí

This is the order “shine for us”, the original has the mere statement “light for us”, which would be cala men. The latest ending for “we” is -lme, -mme was at some point the regular suffix for “we” but was later revised to the dual “I and someone else” (Are you using Quetin i lambe Eldaiva, because it teaches the paradigm before this revision?). “Here” is sís/sisse/sinome, I”m not sure whether khĭn- as a conception survives.

Imíca i amba rembinë aldarion!

Amba means “up(wards), more”, “world” is ambar. The plural of alda is aldar, genitive aldaron, no need for an addidtional -i-.

Elentári! A Varda!

Semantically Gilthoniel “Star-kindler” is closer to Tintalle “kindeler” than Elentári.

Liquistië nát henduly' ar súlelya calima!

Usually the number suffix comes after the possessive suffixes: má → marya → maryat “her two hands”, so hen → hendelya → hendelyat.

Fána fáwë! Fána fáwë! Lirimmë len

fáwe and -mme again. Le, dative len is “you (plural)”, since Varda is only a single person, it should be lye, lyen.

Haiya nóressë han i airen.

airen again.

A elen' i anarvalta yénessë

-valta is a very early word, later we have -enca with the same sense. Since Anar has the stem Anár-, I would compound it as anárenca. Note that yén is an Elvish “long year (144 years)”, a seasonal year would be loa, locative loasse.

As calima má senen rérë nér,

I find as “with” somewhat problematic because AS > ar “and”, I would suggest ó.

Vailimë salquenórissë sí calimë ar liquistië

There is some evidence that when a noun is declined into a case, the adjective was doesn’t agree in number, so vailima salquenórissen.

Cenimmë telepta almalya hlápula!

-mme again. Hlápula is attested in Marcirya, but inn the PE22 paradigm it would be hlapuila, it’s up to you which paradigm you use.

Renimm' en, me 'n harë

-mme again. I don’t think en captures “still” well, I would suggest sinna, tensi. For me + i + hare I would suggest m’ i hare, since hare doesn’t start with a vowel to trigger i → in. “We, who dwell” is plural so I would suggest hare >> harir

Ilmalya i andúnë airenissë.

airen again, adjective agreement again, so andúna airissen. With the example elen síla lúmenna and caita mornie i falmalinnar, I would also consider the allative airinnar

A huge thanks for this well-elaborated reply, now seeing these errors i'm doing a great facepalm haha, though you've pointed out some things that caught me really out of guard! like the number agreement in adjetives of declined nouns, really useful, i will consider it for future translations!

Are you using Quetin i lambe Eldaiva

Now that you say it, i've always been a Helge guy BUT, lately i was reading Quetin i lambe eldaiva and making translations (such as this one) with that guide in mind

I would suggest sinna, tensi

Alas! this one hit me just in the heart, for i changed it for wrong just before posting hahaha. One little question, i've seen that you din't pointed out the e in "rembinë aldarion" as an error, even if rembina is modifying a declined noun, it is for some particular reason?

So here is the corrected version, the only thing i'll preserv is "Elentári! A Varda!" for i wasn't trying to transcribe the name Gilthoniel textually, i just wanted to use Varda Elentári, i always loved that version of the name:

Airilírë Vardo

Fána lossë! Fána lossë! A liquistëa heri!

A tári han i andún’ eäri!

Calë men i ramyalmë sís

Imíca i ambar rembin' aldaron!

Elentári! A Varda!

Liquistië nát hendelyat ar súlelya calima,

Fána lossë! Fána lossë! Lirelmë lyen

Haiya nóressë han i eäri.

A elen' i anárenca loassë

Ó calima má senen rérë nér,

Vailima salquenórissen sí calimë ar liquistië

Cenilmë telepta almalya hlápuila!

A Varda! Elentári!

Renilmë tensi, m’ i harir

Haiya nóressë nu i aldar,

Ilmalyë i andúna eärinnar.

Now it is well enough to make it a contribution? Thank you for your help, Gilruin!

You are completely right about rembine >> rembina, I usually remember it with the adverbial cases but otherwise it often slips off my mind as well.

There have been new publications after both Helge and Thorsten published their courses (for example about those pronominal suffixes). If you like Helge's style, I would suggest to take a look at eldamo.org which has grammar articles to all important topics that are current with the published sources.

Regarding making it a contribution, I'll ask for a couple of other opinions

Hi! Gilruin had asked for our opinions on this translation on Vinye Lambengolmor and I'm copying my remarks from there:

• lirelme > lirilme (aorist)
• Liquistië nát hendelyat is somehow unsatisfying to read. I would either treat hendelyat as a natural pair "one pair of eyes" and have ná and linquistea in singular, or be consistent and inflect all three words in plural (but I am not sure how -u is added to -ea ... linquisteu?). Or maybe assume that dual in later Quenya gets absorbed by plural and use linquistie nár hendelyat.
• in the second stanza it is "beyond the Sea", so why eari?
• "with shining hand" imo calls for an instrumental, not ó
• rére nér: nér > náner and a passive participle would fit better here I think
• haiya (appearing two times) is an adverb, but the original has "in this far land", so I would use > haira (plus the fact that "this" is missing)
• Your original idea of using locative earissen in the last line would be fine with me, since there in no verb implying movement as in the two examples Gilruin gave. I think you can choose whichever you like better.
• The time before the making of the stars was longer than one loa, so I'd say yén can be used (and maybe fits even better, implying a longer period?)
• As for rembine aldaron, I remember that there was still debate about whether the genitive and instrumental count among the cases which lack plural agreement of preceding adjectives. Personally I apply this rule only to the three adverbial cases.
• Maybe use an emphatic elme in "we who dwell" to keep the word more clear after elision?

But overall your translation is already very good!

As for rembine aldaron, I remember that there was still debate about whether the genitive and instrumental count among the cases which lack plural agreement of preceding adjectives.

linta ciryalion/ciryalíva vs quenderinwa koainen >> quenderinwe koaron for the genitive, MQ. laurëa esselínen >> ancalim’ esselínen for the instrumental.

Those examples show that Tolkien kept changing his mind about this issue. Quenderinwe koaron and ancalim' esselínen (though the elision makes it less clear) rather point to plural agreement.

And linta ciryalion/ciryalíva might have linta due to partitive plural. Maybe both singular and plural was possible there, just as we have ciryalillo(n), ciryalinna(r) etc.

Exactly, my point was just to quickly mention the examples that show that it's unclear.

Hullo Luinyelle! thank you for your thoughts on this, you've pointed out some intresting things, also sorry for writing hours late, but i wasn't idle this day!

As for rembine aldaron, I remember that there was still debate about whether the genitive and instrumental count among the cases which lack plural agreement of preceding adjectives

Well, i've read a little bit of the topic, though it is very unclear, and i think i agree with Gilruin on this, i wouldn't exclude from this rule the non-adverbial cases in modern quenya. Soon i'll write a better version, heeding all this advice. Good night!