Faron+thorn?

Zehn Waters #3281

So I know the translator has "hunter" as Faron in Quenya, but what would it be in Sindarin? How would it combine with "thorn" (S. Steadfast)? So "steadfast hunter"? In Quenya it would be Faronsorno?

Rínor #3283

I think the result might be more akin to Ferennirθorn in Sindarin. The evolution goes as follows: [spara] > OS* [sɸara] > S3 [ɸara] > S13 [fara] > S17 [fere] + ✶ndē̆r > dîr¹ [nd-]. This is because where the ancient long ē became ī, and the initial cluster nd- became d- > dîr > S48 dir. Bud since it is not initial it should be ndir then rule S53 would apply and make it nnir. Medial and final [nd] became [nn].

Keep in mind I am using ᴺS. !feredis, n. “hunter (f.)” as a reference and the N. feredir, n. “hunter”

Please bear in mind, I have only been dabbling in this for a little while, and Ellanto has been a wealth of knowledge. As I have frequently seen mentioned online, it is definitely not for beginners. There are certainly a lot of rules to consider. And I would still defer to others as well as they have more experience than I do.

Zehn Waters #3285

lol No worries. I'm not even the least bit versed in it. Just started even considering lenition. Would you like me to drop ALL of my attempts at Elf names? It'd give you practice lol.

Oof. Ferennirθorn looks terribly complicated. I don't think any elf would approve lol.

Rínor #3289

Yeah, it is I am sure I am missing something that would change it more as well. But I am having fun none the less looking and seeing how the words are formed. So if you have more I would be happy to give them a go.

Ellanto #3292

Ferennirthorn does not seem entirely correct; neither do feredir and feredis, come to think of it. Feredir is attested in Noldorin, which is essentially draft-Sindarin, and may not transfer perfectly well to proper Sindarin. I'd have to look at it more closely some other time, but what stands out to me (with feredir) is (1) that it has i-affection, and (2) that medial -nd- should become -nn-, not -d-...

The i-affection is a Noldorin vs. Sindarin thing - the final element comes from ✶ndēr, and in Noldorin (draft-Sindarin) [ē] became [ī] early, before i-affection takes place; however in mature Sindarin this change takes place later, after i-affection. Updating this word (tentatively, I am doing this off the top of my head right now...) might yield farannir instead.

Anyway, to the actual question at hand.

Faron is a Sindarin word (technically also N. / draft-Sindarin, but can be used as Sindarin without alterations), not Quenya.

I would render the name "steadfast hunter" as Thorfaron.

Zehn Waters #3295

Hm. Not quite as melodic as I would like. I'll need to think about it. Would Farothorn work?

Ellanto #3298

The agental suffix must come last in a compound. If you want to reverse the elements here, then it would be Farathornon or Farthornon. I can also imagine it becoming Farastornon, which may be better.

Alternatively, you can consider other words for "steadfast", though here I must caution you to look carefully at their semantics.

  • thorn is "steadfast" in the sense of hardy, strong; suggested forms above.

  • sador is "steadfast" in the sense of trusty, loyal, reliable, faithful.

    • This can yield Farhador (note that the -rh- here is a cluster, [far.hador]).
  • born is "steadfast" in the sense of enduring, also with a connotation of faithful, loyal.

    • This can yield Faravorn (as "steadfast-hunt").
  • A more basic word of this root is bôr "steadfast; trusty man, faithful vassal", which can be either a noun or an adjective.

    • This can yield Borfaron or Faravor (the latter "steadfast-hunt").
  • Also of the same root we have brond "firm, steadfast, faithful, constant".

    • This can yield Bronfaron.
  • Another related word is thala "stalwart, steady, firm, hardy, valiant, bold".

    • This can produce Thalfaron, Farathalion or Farastalion.
Zehn Waters #3303

I'll give those a look over and see which I feel matches the character best. I do wish to retain "hunter" rather than just "hunt" so Thalfaron may be what I stick with, though I like the look and sound of Farhador, Faravorn, & Faravor. I'll need to give it more thought.

lol "farastalion". I should give him a horse to ride.