Phrase tense and lenition help

Hey everyone,

I have gone through a lot of documentation trying to wrap my head around lenition, plural rules, tense etc. Here is my first composed sentence:

Geliatham i mith in edhil.

Which I understand to mean "we will learn the language of the elves." I've appended future tense and subject pronomials to gelia-, lenited beth into meth, then pluralized into mith, and then added plural en (in) for edhil. Does this look right? Are there any lenition rules I am missing?

This is a great first effort! For “We will learn the language of the Elves,” I would say Geliathab/Geliathof i lam in Edhil.

Some notes indicate that very late in his life, Tolkien imagined Sindarin to have an inclusive first-person plural suffix -(a)b and exclusive -(o)f. Geliathab would then mean “we (including you) will learn,” while geliathof would be “we (but not you) will learn.” Some authors forgo this distinction and just use -(o)f, while others stick to the previously known -(a)m. I maintain the distinction in my own translation.

We have lam from Tolkien for “language,” so I’d use that here. With your approach — “the words of the Elves” — note that the original “word” is rather peth, which pluralizes to pith “words,” and then mutates in pith > i phith “the words.”

Hannin Röandil, I can see why Lam works better, I did not think of it. Regarding mutation, the lessons I read were not quite clear on when it occurs. I see here that the i mutates pith into phith, but the course also mentioned that -in suffixes could cause mutation in the appended word. In that case of the -in suffix, is the only mutation with the vowels? For example, were I to write Melin gelio, is that correct for saying "I love to learn?" or have I forgotten some mutation?

Which lessons are you using? Many online resources are unfortunately out of date and can be quite misleading.

There are a few processes at work here. We call the change from in pith > i phith nasal mutation, that is, a mutation caused by the nasal consonant n as the two words became closely associated in speakers' thought. The change from peth "word" to pith "words" is variously called ablaut, vowel change, or i-affection. Long story short, when an i occurs in an affix, it can affect the other vowels within a word. Among other things, this process is the basis for Sindarin plural formation, which all reliable courses should discuss in detail.

I would say Melin geliad for "I love to learn."

I was able to get the council of elrond downloadable lessons doc. I am sure it's a little outdated and seemed to be a work in progress, but it has an overview of the lenition, nasal mutation, etc. Would you recommend another source? I have seen that weebly has some lessons with little quizzes, but I will need a Bunch of practice to get this down.

In your example of Melin Geliad, I see that seems to translate to I love learn[ing]. Is this the preferred form over the infinitive gelia->gelio, because the infinitive can get confused with the imperative form gelio= "learn!" ?

I see! The Council of Elrond lessons are rather quite outdated, and I (and many other Elvish enthusiasts) advise strongly against the Weebly and its lessons.

Fiona Jallings's A Fan's Guide to Neo-Sindarin is currently the best resource available for learning a version of the language vetted by the active Elvish language community. It's available from major outlets, and she's at work on a second edition with great updates. If you're interested in serious and active study, we'd be happy to have you in our Discord server, as well.

The current consensus is that Sindarin uses the gerund in this environment, yes, but doesn't undergo vocalic mutation as a verbal object (so we don't expect something like merin *ngeliad).

I see. I would like to start studying seriously, as my friend and I have resolved to learn this language during covid times. I wonder if the digital version of the neo-sindarin book would suffice, or if a physical copy would be better?

I also really enjoy the exercise of composing sentences with all the rules, and I could use the practice that the discord server would provide.

I am currently trying to work out a name for a secret glade. Here are my two attempts:

cereth naergonen

stream of my laments

hadhu dolen e-din angwain

secret seat of sweeter silence (?)

Do either of these look sound? Keep in mind I have not obtained the neo-sindarin book yet so I likely used outdated rules.