First Phrases

Alec McCready #1342

This is my first time posting and using the dictionary in earnest, so, this is going to be a pretty janky translation, but, thats why I'm coming for help here. Its a hodge-podge of Early, Middle, and Late Quenya, and I've committed to narrowing it down to a more period appropriate translation (as soon as I commit to a certain period, that is!) but I sourced all the words from Parf Edhellen, so it shouldn't be too hard to be referenced and amended by you scholarly folk. I needed something poetic for my purposes, so I came up with a quick little romantic verse with repetition and double meanings to try my hand at translating:

melesnya, ksaranyë antyë

my (-nya) love (meles or mele), I (-nyë) long/yearn (ksara) for (an-) thee (-tye)

melesnya, cestanyë antyë

my (-nya) love (meles or mele), I (-nyë) seek (cesta-) for (an-) thee (-tye)

melesnya, velányë tye

my (-nya) love (meles or mele), I (-nyë) see (véla-) thee (tye)

melesnya, samnyë tye

my (-nya) love (meles or mele), I (-nyë) have/hold (sam-) thee (-tye)

I really look forward to seeing what you guys have to say about how its put together and would greatly appreciate all insights, critiques, and revisions you may have.

Elaran #1344

"Early / Middle Quenya" refer to the conceptual development stages of Quenya. They are not canonical "archaic forms" (or "old" in Middle-earth), but rather drafts from the earlier days of Tolkien's language construction (or "old" in the real world). In other words:

Early Quenya: Drafts from the 1920s
Middle Quenya: Drafts from the 1940s (more in tune with the latter)
(Late) Quenya: Canonical form from the 1960s

So in terms of "actual Quenya", using earlier (especially the Early Period) works as a base is not really an option.


As I always say, dictionaries do not teach grammar, and words mean little without grammar... I will skip to how I would translate those phrases:

Melmenya, xaran(ye) tyen.
Melmenya, cestan(ye) tyen.
Melmenya, cenin(ye) tye.
Melmenya, samin(ye) tye.

Alec McCready #1346

I had no idea that Early and Middle were non-canon. Thanks for correcting me there, I had the general idea of what they were in relation to each other, but I thought it was just canonical development in relation to the changing of the world, which I evidenced by some words translating over various versions. I tried retranslating using "Late" Quenya, but, without proper knowledge of the grammar, it isn't as well put together as yours. I had the idea of trying to use the word for love in the meaning "to love" with the prefix meles as a sort of narrative for the growth of the speaker, but, I scrapped that idea and just fixed on an ode to some other person. Thank you a lot for your help with this! Do you have any resources to aid me in the study of the grammar as well? As I said before, I'm relatively new to the language scene of Tolkien nerddom.

Caroline #1377

I'd like a grammar resource as well- my friend and I made Sindarin flash cards for a few useful phrases, but when I try to create sentences of my own, I realize I need grammar! If anyone has any Elvish grammar books/websites/etc., I'd be much obliged.

(also, the fact that you're writing a poetic ode in Elvish gives me hope for humanity.)