Phrase “Lord's prayer” by Aldaleon

      ⸱      ⸱     ⸱      ⸱      :        ⸱       ⸱          :

Ae Adar nín i vi Menel, no aer i eneth lín, tolo i arnad lín, caro den i innas lín, bo Ceven sui vi Menel. Anno ammen sír i mbas ilaurui vín, ar díheno ammen i úgerth vín, sui mín i gohenam di ai gerir úgerth ammen.

Tolkien translated the Pater Noster into Sindarin in the 50s. The prayer was published and commented in Vinyar Tengwar 44.

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Orodor Calaerchon #446

I'd love to see the full version of this!

This bit is left out; "And do not lead us into temptation, But deliver us from the Evil/Wicked One; For Yours is the Kingdom and the Power, And the glory, now and forever! Amen."

2018-09-17T23:48:35+00:00
Ríon Gondremborion #448

Albeit I don't subscribe to VT I can probably guess that there is not a currently published "full" version of the prayer. If you look through some of the Quenya prayers you'd notice that Tolkien doesn't finish (at least) one of them.

If the prayer does exist in a fully translated state it probably hasn't been published yet as Tolkien like re-writing stuff. And re-re-writing. And re-re-re-writing. And...

2018-09-18T04:16:25+00:00
Orodor Calaerchon #450

I see.

Well then, I suppose we could take the honour of trying to translate it ourselves then! (after having understood a bit more of the Sindarin grammar, haha)

2018-09-18T04:54:11+00:00
Aldaleon #451

Tolkien did translate the entire prayer in Quenya. All drafts, including his final version, were published in Vinyar Tengwar 43. You will find our breakdown of Tolkien’s final version in Parf Edhellen’s section for texts in Quenya.

2018-09-18T05:14:22+00:00
Dírheron #468

Tolkien did translate the entire prayer. He was Catholic, and the "For thine is the Kingdom, and the Power, and the Glory forever" is only in Protestant prayers.

2018-09-29T20:24:50+00:00
Orodor Calaerchon #470

@Dirheron Seriously? Why in Arda do Catholics not have the full prayer?

2018-09-30T01:01:25+00:00
Brad Benjamin #472

Hullo! Yes, while Tolkien didn't quite translate the "For thine is the Kingdom, and the Power, and the Glory now and forever! Amen" bit, he was planning on still translating the "And lead us not from temptation, but deliver us from evil" bit (the Quenya version even has this part). Tolkien was considering many forms, but a probable form for temptation, as is already accepted in many contemporaty Sindarin dictionaries, is "úthaes". I would like then to propose the ending. If you do not want your translation to be influenced by mine, do not read this! I do not use neologisms. If you are open to it, I would like to propose, "Ar avo doltho ammen an úthaes, ach edleithio ammen en/uin ogol." Explanation: "ar", a more archaic form of "a/h" (meaning: and) seems most befitting here. If King Elessar can write it to Samwise at the end of the Third Age, I would say we can here. The prayer also uses that form itself when it says "ar díheno ammen". "Avo doltho" can be presumed from "avo garo" (meaning: don't do). Now "ach" is a controversial conjunction from the Túrin Wrapper, but I find that even other potential meanings of the word, including "still", can work here. Coincidentally, "ac" is the Old English word for "but".... hmm........ Now "edleithio" comes from a rather interesting basis, "etelehta" in the Quenya version of the prayer, and we have "leithia-" already in Sindarin. There is also no reason, with the Quenya version using "ulco" and all, why Tolkien would not have used "ogol" as his word here for evil. Once again, I, unfortunately, am not Tolkien, and thus you should NOT take my word on this, by any means, but I do spend as much time as anything glossing through the Sindarin Corpus and I have written many a document containing corrections to Sindarin grammar in the movies. (I'm thinking of posting one!) Well, that's all. Good day (or night)!

2018-09-30T12:07:21+00:00
Níntúrion #654

Mae govannen melon nín! I am just starting to learn the Sindarin language, and this will help me alot in starting to learn a few more words in the language! Also, do any of you have any suggested resources for learning Sindarin grammar? A link to a Sindarin dictionary would also be greatly appreciated. I know it may be hard to learn but to try to stop me would be as hard as to drag a dwarf from the hord. Thank you melon(please give me the plural) nín and untill next we meet!

2018-12-24T00:18:18+00:00
Paul Strack #658

For the most recent information on Sindarin grammar I recommend Fiona Jallings A Fan’s Guide to Neo-Sindarin. As for a Sindarin Dictionary ... that’s what this site is for.

The plural for mellon “friend” is mellyn “friends”. See the entry for mellon on this site.

2018-12-25T02:02:49+00:00