Sindarin - correct me if I'm wrong

Limiel #3505

Hi, I'm currently learning Sindarin. Could you please help me with some simple sentences and correct me if there's any mistake:

A! I eneth nin Limiell. Sen eneth edhellen. Tôl o in pith "lim" ar "iell". Gûlon edhellen, i lam edregol lend. Tolen o Galasbassarîdh. Man i eneth lîn? Mas o tolich? - Hi! My name is Limiell. This is elvish name. It comes from the words "lim" (light, clear) and "iell" (daughter, girl, maid) [my actual name literally means The light person]. I am learning Elvish, the language is very melodious. I come from Bread-plant-and-Peace [literal translation for the name of my town is Rye-and-Peace]. What is your name? Where are you coming from?

I could not find a translation for "to learn", so I created my own using method of transforming noun into the verb like in case of way - pâd and to walk - pad. Now I see a word in your dictionary gelia- and I wonder how should I use it? How to say I'm learning, I learn? Gelion, gelian? What about gerund form - would it be gûlad or geliad?

I also wonder, which sentence sounds better in terms of used sentence structure:

Melin mened an taur. - I like to go to forest.

Melin padad tauren. - I like forest walking.

Melin padad vi taur, min yrn ar tyss, lastad aewlinn. - I like to walk in forest, between trees and bushes, to listen to bird's-songs.

Thank you in advance!

Ellanto #3515

Hello Limiell!

First slight correction is for the name itself - it should be Limiel with only one final L.

A! I eneth nín Limiel. Se eneth edhellen. Tôl od i-phith "limp" a "iell". Gelion edhellen, i-lam edregol lend. Telin od Losgidh. Man i-eneth lín? Omas telig?

Notes:

  • Remember consonant mutations.

  • The proper word for "and" in Sindarin is a(h), which causes sibilant mutation; ar was introduced as an influence from Quenya, and I do not recommend using it generally speaking.

  • The phrase i-lam edregol lend is morphosyntactically ambiguous, and can simultaneously be interpreted as either "the language is especially tuneful" and "the especially tuneful language". If you want to avoid this ambiguity and go specifically with the first interpretation ("the language is especially tuneful"), you can rephrase this as edregol lend i-lam; this may be taken as a more literary register however.

  • Galasbassarîdh is far from being a viable compound. Luckily a word for "rye" is actually attested - losc - it exists in very very early drafts of the language, but can perhaps be used nonetheless. This in turn can produce Losgidh "rye-peace" as I provided above.

  • You should use gelia- for "to learn". Your suggested gûla- doesn't work for Sindarin.

As for the sentences:

  • Melin mened na daur. "I like to go to a forest". You are expressing an allative relation here, therefore you need the preposition na. Regardless, your sentence lacked mutation - with an + taur you would get a thaur.

  • Melin paded ren. Verbal nouns of basic verbs are formed with -ed. Adjectives modifying a noun attributively require lenition. The au diphthong becomes ó in polysyllabic words, with some exceptions. All of that being said, I do not think "foresty walking" makes much sense.

  • Melin paded vi daur, im yrn a thyss, lastad aewlinn. Words should be mutated after prepositions (in this case lenition). "Between" is im. I would also propose adding a conjunction here, "I like to walk... and to listen...", thus a lhastad aewlinn.

Overall this was very good! Primarily I would say that you should pay attention to mutations. Let me know if you have any questions!

Limiel #3518

Thank you very much for your answer! Where can I find rules about those mutations? I also see, that some words I've used were not correct - like 'between', but I found it in the article below, does it mean, that it's not legit?

www.elvish.org

I would be very thankful if you'll help me find the right sources for learning Sindarin.

Thank you in advance!

Ellanto #3519

Happy to help!

The website you are using is not bad per se. I actually had the pleasure of meeting Galadhorn, its creator, in August last year. The problem is that the website was last updated back in 2005. Since then there have been at least 9 new publications of Tolkien's linguistic material, and nearly 20 years of study of Tolkienian linguistics by the people of the community; in other words, the website is extremely outdated. Unfortunately, the same is true of the majority of Elvish related websites.

The best platform for studying Elvish and interacting with Elvish experts nowadays is the Vinyë Lambengolmor Discord server.

For Sindarin grammar there is up to date beginner friendly resource I'm afraid, but you can find most of what you need to know here. There is information about mutations there as well.

There is also this concise summary of mutations made by Elaran, the creator of Vinyë Lambengolmor; just note that it doesn't tell you which mutation to use and when, only what the result of the mutation will be.

And for a dictionary Eldamo would be the most efficient overall.