Sindarin translation

Hi, I'm trying to render a motto in Sindarin. The full English phrase would be "We go where eagles dare".

The best I've come up with is a simplified "Mas berthathor", which I hope is the correct rendition of "where eagles dare". But I'm unable to make the full sentence.

Can you help?

Not sure what "simplified" means but that attempt does not really work.

Firstly, the Sindarin neologism *mas depends on the Quenya strengthening of the locative suffix from -sē to -ssē. Because "MAsē" would simply be "ma" in Sindarin, and only "MAssē" can yield *mas(s). And whether this is in tune with Sindarin is debatable at best. But there is a safer way to say "where" in Sindarin. Your phrase seems to use it in allative form like "whither", so *navan would work for you. Then again, both this word and the former come from the interrogative (rather than the relative) root. So they are to be used in questions, at least that is what Quenya does. But the relative-based forms are difficult / unknown to form in Sindarin, so some think that the interrogative forms would be used (like English "where" which acts both as interrogative and relative).

Next, your conjugation of bertha- seems to mix both the future form and the agental noun, like "will-darer". If that "-or" was "-ar" instead, then it would work better as... "they will dare", which is still not what you want. So simply berthar "they dare" is the right form. No sign of "eagles" here however.

I would personally paraphrase this heavily, but I am guessing that that is not wanted here, so a direct translation with the above stuff:

Menif/Menib navan Theryn berthar.

That "-f" means "we (excluding you)" & "-b" means "we (including you)". In other words, "-f" is "I and others, not you", and "-b" is "you and I (and others)". Choose according to that.

Thanks Elaran! Very educational as usual.

Next, your conjugation of bertha- seems to mix both the future form and the agental noun, like "will-darer"

That was actually unintended.. but pretty cool, to be honest. That is done by using the agental suffix or, right? "I will dare" is berthathol, so "will-darer" could be berthathor. Hadn't thought of that, and I could use this in some other context. Very insightful!

Menif/Menib navan Theryn berthar.

Thanks for the Menif/Menib differentiation. In fact, menif is great for what I want to convey.

However, wouldn't Thoronath be more appropriate? This refers to "eagles" in general, as an idealised class I guess, not "some eagles". But maybe there's something I'm missing.

Overall, Menif navan Theryn/Thoronath berthar is the literal translation of what I need, and I might simplify it as Navan Theryn/Thoronath berthar ("where eagles dare", as a motto, leaving "we go" to the imagination).

But am I curious, if you have time and feel inclined, to hear how you would paraphrase it (still as a motto, so the shorter and more incisive, the better).

"I will dare" is berthathol

No, that is "You(formal) will dare". And "I will dare" is rather berthathon.

pretty cool ... I could use this ... Very insightful!

My point was that it is rather nonsensical... I was pointing out a mistake. The "will" bit is meant as in the future tense (not "will(power)" or anything like that), thus it is simply "darer(in-the-future)", which is not a translation but my trying to approximate its (non)sense.

wouldn't Thoronath be more appropriate?

If you want "all Eagles", yes.

how you would paraphrase it

I did not have anything in mind, I simply meant that I would personally try and think of an alternative to say the same thing without questionable parts. It can take time, and I would rather reply quickly.

No, that is "You(formal) will dare". And "I will dare" is rather berthathon.

Right you are :P

My point was that it is rather nonsensical... I was pointing out a mistake. The "will" bit is meant as in the future tense (not "will(power)" or anything like that), thus it is simply "darer(in-the-future)", which is not a translation but my trying to approximate its (non)sense.

I get what you are saying, but I was fascinated anyway but that construction - it feels somewhat "poetic", for lack of a better term. will-darer sounds like a contracted form of "He who will dare": interesting as a name or honorific title, or something to put in a prophecy.

Thank you again for your help and patience.