questions about the conversation between Haldir and Aragorn

Kinnuch #3842

Hi there, I'm analyzing Quenya and Sindarin scripts in the movie(I'm a learner myself and I'm making simple Quenya and Sindarin tutorial videos in Chinese platforms since the concept of Middle Earth is famous in China but Elvish is hardly ever known.)

The LotR movies in China were introduced long ago, and at that time the translators in China hadn't dived into Elvish grammar, thus some scripts are somewhat wrong or puzzling. Like the following two between Haldir and Aragon.

'Annûn cîl dregdû sí haered.' What I've heard is like 'drega dû' not 'dregdû' cause I don't think 'dregdû' is valid, I wonder if there is a better explanation.

'Ú dae bertho narhem.' the word 'narhem' cannot be found anywhere(I don't think it is valid XD). so my hypothetical explanation is 'Ú dae bertho na hen'='(You) cannot bring shadow(evil) to this (place/land)'.

English is not my mother tongue so if there is anything hard to understand I apologize for that (ㄒoㄒ) . Thank you!

Rínor #3843

Welcome Kinnuch! I have tried finding those quotes in different sources and not sure where they come from. I don't see anything close with the interactions between Haldir and Aragorn. Maybe I am missing something.

  • Annûn (Sunset, West)
  • cîl (choose "3rd pr. sg.") this could also be N. cîl n. “cleft, pass between hills, gorge”
  • drega (flee "3rd pr. sg.")
  • dû (night)
  • sí (here)
  • haered. ((remote) distance)

Second sentence.

  • Ú (no, not)
  • dae (very)
  • bertho (dare "imperative")
  • na (to(words))
  • san (that "soft mutation")

I am assuming the first is something like "Sunset we choose to flee, night is here" or something like that. Should be something like Cilig dragad na Annûn an nû sí v' i-chaered. Which would be "We choose to flee at Sunset for night is here in the distance"

And the second one could be No (one) dares to go towards that. Really I don’t know though.

Again these are very rough guesses.

Kinnuch #3844

Le athae, Rínor.

The text showed up in the movie when the fellowship arrived at Lothlórien and were mistakenly captured by Haldir. I have searched for some information and it turned out to be some scripts in the extended version of the movie(around 2:32:00).Interestingly many resources says sentences in this clip are usually not showed in subtitles.


This is the first sentence, and the chinese above says 'We have fleed from the western gorge for long'. So my hypothesis is that dregdû is drega dû and the whole sentence should be like 'Annûn cîl drega dû sí haered' and thus the word 'night' was not properly translated.


This is the second setence, where the chinese above says '(You) cannot bring that evil to (Lothlórien)' (evil refers to the ring). And the word 'narhem' cannot be found . so my hypothetical explanation is 'Ú dae bertho na hen'='(You) cannot bring shadow(evil) to this (place/land)'.

The verb bertha- indeed should be dare nowadays but the movie was made back then around 2000 and at that time PE17 didn't exist, so here the director must have been choosing some archaic forms. So here I prefer dae is evil(shadow) and bertha- is bring. These are also my rough thinking (●'◡'●).

Rínor #3845

Found it! Here is want is actually said.

Aragorn: "Boe ammen veriad lîn. Andelu i ven!" (We need your protection. The road is fell!)

[Haldir whispers back inaudibly.]

Aragorn: "Merin le telim." (I wish we may come with you.)

[Haldir answers quietly, again so that only Aragorn can hear his words.]

Aragorn: "Henio, aníron boe ammen i dulu lîn!" (Please, understand, we need your support!)

I agree with you on your assessments that they miss translated. I think in the second sentence they use preposition dae "dreadful" and I think it was bertha "dare" indicated You "not" dare to bring that dreadful thing. Because he does say that in English You bring great evil with you. Ú dae bertho na hen'='(You) cannot bring shadow(evil) to this (place/land)'.

Kinnuch #3846

Oh I get your point, 'dare' indeed makes sense.

Thanks again Rínor. Le athae. (^_^)